Breaking down how these pivotal contests could possibly play out is a challenging venture, which is why UFC staff writer E. Spencer Kyte has taken to enlisting the help of some of the sharpest minds in the sport to help dissect these critical contests.
With Saturday’s UFC 316 women’s bantamweight championship bout between Julianna Pena and Kayla Harrison approaching, Kyte sat down with Eddie Barraco from Xtreme Couture to dive into the details of the compelling grudge match.
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Best Trait of Each Fighter
Kyte: The closer we get to this one, the more excited I am, so let’s get into it. What’s the best trait of Julianna Pena and what’s the best trait of Kayla Harrison?
Barraco: For Julianna, I feel like her relentless grit and mental toughness are huge for her; having that unwavering determination.
She doesn’t have a traditional martial arts background from a young age, and I think she compensates for that with willpower and spirit. Not that it’s the greatest attribute to have as a fighter, but the ability to absorb punishment and keep pressing forward has been critical in some of her victories.
For Kayla Harrison, it’s pretty obvious to everyone: it’s her elite grappling and her physical dominance; she’s a specimen.
Two-time Olympic judo gold medalist, bringing some world-class grappling skills to the Octagon, and her transition to MMA has been pretty much nothing but dominant performances, being able to leverage her judo background to get people to the ground and control them on the ground. So her strength and technique make her a force, especially in clinch situations, and with ground control.
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Kyte: As a coach, how big is it to have somebody that has that tenacity that Julianna Pena has?
Barraco: I think it’s critical for a fighter to have that.
You can teach people technique. If I’m given enough time with someone, I can make them technically sound, but what exists in the mind and what exists in the heart — you’re not teaching that, completely. You can improve on something that is already there, but you’re not going to give it to somebody that doesn’t have it at all.
If that person has quit in them, it’s there, period. I would much rather take somebody with no quit, tenacity, and toughness, and then teach them the technique over somebody that quits.
UFC 316 FREE FIGHTS: Pena vs Nunes | Dvalishvili vs Nurmagomdeov | Harrison vs Holm | O’Malley vs Sterling
Kyte: You can learn your way out of it to a certain extent, and we’ve seen that with some people,who used to look for exits when things got tough, and now…
Barraco: Now it’s “you’ve got to finish me.”
Kyte: 100 percent, and that’s a big factor, but I agree with you on the “would rather have grit than all the technique” part from a coaching standpoint, and Pena might be the best example right now because she’s just got that belief, that confidence to her.
Barraco: She’s got that dog in her, and the self-belief doesn’t allow her to think anything other, which is great.
Kyte: I think we throw around terms like “world-class” and “elite” too liberally at times in this sport, but Harrison genuinely fits the bill.
How big is it to have someone that has that one world-class skill — that single talent that differentiates you from everyone else — when it comes to getting ready to step in there?
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Barraco: It provides an entire new level of confidence.
In MMA, it’s hard to have specialized in something to the level Kayla specialized in judo, and still be well-rounded enough or have the abilities enough to compete in MMA at the UFC level. For me, I think it’s a tremendous asset for her because it provides a lot of mental confidence as well, because she knows physically what she’s capable of, but mentally, she’s also like, “Whatever.”
Her attitude illustrates how confident she is going in there every time.
Path to Victory
Kyte: What’s the path to victory for each of them?
Barraco: I think having Pena dragging Harrison into some deep waters is going to be her best path to victory.
Kyte: Survive and get into the championship rounds.
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Barraco: Extend the fight into the latter rounds, test Harrison’s cardio and endurance, and maintain a high pace, while also having the ability to resist the takedowns.
I think far too often people will fight a ground opponent and get so hesitant when it comes to letting their offense go that they just get backed up, which makes it that much easier for the other people to walk them down or run them down. So she’s got to stay active offensively.
She’s got to throw and threaten things up the mid-line. I need to see knees, uppercuts, teeps thrown up the middle, angles being used early on; not letting Kayla trap her and press her against the cage. And then hopefully she gets it to the later rounds, where Harrison might experience some fatigue, so, for me, that’s her route.
Kyte: And for Harrison, it feels pretty straightforward.
Barraco: Early takedown and ground control.
“I’m gonna back you up all the way to that barrier, and I’m not gonna let you go. I’m gonna clinch up with you, I’m gonna get you down, and I’m gonna use my legs to work inside and outside sweeps and trips to get you down.”
Saturday’s Fight By Fight Preview
It’s asserting her grappling dominance early, for sure. Getting those takedowns and controlling her on the ground obviously neutralizes Pena’s striking and wears her down. An early finish by submission or some ground-and-pound would be best for Kayla; get out of there as early as you can.
Kyte: Yeah, this very much feels like one where if it’s done early, it’s going one way, and if we go deeper into things, it gets interesting and could be going another way.
X Factor
Kyte: What are your X-factors for these two?
Barraco: For Pena, I think it’s being able to utilize and showcase some of that defensive grappling and scrambling IQ.
She’s scrappy, but can she do that against an elite grappler like Harrison? So her ability to defend takedowns, scramble back to her feet, defend positions — that’s the true X-factor because without a doubt, Kayla is getting her hands on her, and it’s going to come down to Pena’s ability to mitigate the clinch and the takedown.
If she gets stuck underneath Harrison for long stretches, she’s losing the rounds, she’s potentially getting finished down there, but if she can create scrambles, force resets, make Harrison work harder for the control than she’s used to. I think her win over Amanda Nunes showed she can thrive in some chaos, so the key is surviving and then capitalizing on the moments where Harrison is transitioning or getting over-confident on top.
Ultimately, it’s her ability to turn defensive grappling into offensive opportunities.
Kyte: Right — can you mitigate the damage, can you minimize the amount she’s getting to stuff easily, and at the very least make her work?
Chances are you’re getting taken down, but when you do, get active, get up, get working because if she gets it easy, you’re screwed.
Barraco: Yeah, it’s a wrap.
Kyte: We saw with Ketlen Vieira — and altitude probably played a factor in that too — but it’s a hard cut for Kayla, and Vieira made her work, and Harrison was tired by the end of that fight.
Barraco: And for Harrison, I think her athletic dominance — I don’t think we’ve ever seen her pushed into a gritty, back-and-forth war, and Pena can generate that. With the weight-cut to ’35, we know she has difficulty with that, so, for me, I think the X-factor is cardio under some real adversity.
If she can maintain her cardio in the championship rounds, under some real adversity, it would shut everybody up. I think that’s the final piece of the puzzle we’ve been waiting to see from her, is seeing that she can push the cardio, can be in a war and make it through the five rounds.
Kyte: I think everyone tends to agree that if she wins, it’s likely to be early — dominance, bigger, more physical; just a mauling.
But she’s one of the few people that would really benefit the most from going out there and being in a dirty, 25-minute fight where she had to battle hard. Like 2-2 going into Round 5 and she comes out and is the one that is able to dig deep would be amazing because then all the questions go away, all the talk is silenced; she’s answered all the questions.
I would love to see her healthy, in Round 4; I just want to see it. I just want to see what’s there.
Barraco: Me too.
One Coaching Curiosity
Kyte: In terms of a curiosity point, what’s the thing you’re looking to see or the question you want answered?
Barraco: For me, there is the clash of styles, and then knowing one’s mental fortitude for certain — I feel — and not knowing the other one, and I want to see how those things all line up.
So I want to see the clash between Pena’s mental resilience and Harrison’s technical prowess; that clash of styles. And then seeing how Pena’s camp prepared her to deal with Harrison’s grappling while still having her be offensive, exploit the fatigue, and present problems?
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She’s going to have to make Harrison respect her, and I’m interested to see how they game plan to get that done, what she comes out utilizing.
For Harrison, I want to see if she can maintain her performance for all five rounds, if necessary. We keep talking about it, but that’s the big thing. I know what she’s capable of — though it would also be nice to see her develop her striking some more, present more challenges for opponents when they game plan for her.
That being said, if you have something that somebody can’t stop, you shouldn’t change it; make the other person figure out how to stop it. People complained about Khabib throughout his career, but no one could stop him, so why would he stop wrestling?
Kyte: (Eric) Nicksick always throws out that one Robert Follis line…
Barraco: “I don’t want a fair fight!”
Kyte: That’s it!
Barraco: “I’m not saying cheat, but I’m not looking for a fair fight.”
Kyte: Right! If you’ve got an advantage…
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Barraco: If I’m a two-time Olympic judo gold medalist, I am absolutely using that to my advantage. If I fought Claressa Shields, I’m not gonna go in there and box with her for five rounds.
Kyte: It’s still a valid point though, because her grappling becomes better the more you have to be aware of the striking, and it doesn’t have to be super-technical or elite.
It’s like Merab has figured out working with John Wood, to where you have to be a little worried about the overhand right, he’ll kick you a little, and it creates that little half-second pause.
Barraco: Right — you’re not engaging as you should be, and all of sudden, you’re in a grappling situation because you were waiting on something.
Kyte: In terms of her using what she has to neutralize and counteraction Kayla’s grappling, and make her respect her, is it as simple as she has to be going forward, making Kayla work backwards, and presenting steady volume?
Barraco: She’s definitely going to have to be active offensively, and like I said, she’s going to have to do things that threaten the mid-line and Kayla’s ability to shoot. She’s going to have to give her some things to think about that she’s going to have to cross in between and get through in order to initiate the grappling.
If she’s not doing that and not posing any threats to stop her, what’s to stop Harrison from just doing what she does? That stuff has got to be there, but she has to do it in a way where she’s not just standing in front of her after either.
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You’re gonna have to get off, and then you’re gonna half to get off line. She’s gonna have to stick and move, utilize angles and footwork while still trying to put a pace on her.
Kyte: If that’s not your traditional approach — and I wouldn’t say that’s her usual approach — how difficult is that to pick up and implement in the course of a training camp?
Barraco: It is difficult to do things differently, especially as the fight is happening.
Can it be done? Definitely, if there is a huge emphasis from her team and her coaching staff on doing the right drills, putting herself in those positions, drilling it over and over and over again in camp will certainly increase the likelihood of her doing it in the fight. I don’t know what type of fighter she is in terms of her ability to implement new things from camp into the fight, but if she can — even a shred of it — it will certainly help her out.
I think it’s easier to learn something new that isn’t trying to counter your opponent’s biggest strength, if that makes sense. So if you’re fighting Harrison thinking you’re going to work all camp to come out a better grappler, it’s not likely to happen, but it’s also going to prompt you to probably try to do it more in the fight, because you’re doing it all camp.
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Adding some footwork stuff in and getting off-line after combos? You can do that. Pad-holders can implement that. They could be doing drills over and over; Nicksick and I are big on drills to implement that kind of stuff in terms of footwork and movement and angles because it doesn’t necessarily always happen in sparring.
But if you take all that into sparring, you’re usually more likely to take some of that and implement it into the fight.
Kyte: It’s gonna be an interesting one.
Barraco: Oh yeah!
